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Friday
Jan222010

Recon: Saint Joseph's University

For St. Joe's, there will never be anotherThe Saint Joseph’s basketball program was the little school that could back in 2003. Led by All-Everything point-guard Jameer Nelson and Delonte West, and a stellar supporting cast that included Pat Carroll, Dwayne Jones, Ty Barley and Chet Stachitas, Phil Martelli’s squad won their first twenty-seven games—going undefeated in the regular season. After bowing out early in the A-10 quarterfinals, the Hawks were mere seconds away from a trip to the Final Four.  St. Joe’s ended that magical season with a 30-2 record, finishing fifth in the AP poll. Martelli’s stock was at an all-time high, and with many of the team’s key contributors coming back the next season, SJU was a program on the rise.

Only that ascension never came. The ’04-’05 Hawks had a decent run, finishing the year 24-12 (14-2 in the A-10), and ended the season with a loss against South Carolina in the NIT Championship. But that was it for St. Joe's (although you did have SJU’s questionable inclusion in the 2008 tournament), they never came close to building a consistent high-level basketball program. At first blush, not capitalizing on the momentum from the Elite Eight success seems like the program failed. However, when you begin to peel away the layers and consider the circumstances, it’s clear that the ’03-’04 team caught lightning in a bottle.     

As an aside, could you imagine what our already self-aggrandizing fan base would be like if the Flyers made a run to the Elite Eight? This is where you have to give St. Joseph’s fans credit, they realized the Hawks were defying the odds as it was unfolding before their eyes The fervor on Hawk Hill reached a fever pitch, and the fans enjoyed the ride specifically because it wouldn’t last. St. Joe's fans were savvy enough to realize the obstacles their program was up against, barriers they had little chance of overcoming. Saint Joseph's simply does not have the resources necessary to compete with the titans of college basketball on a year-to-year basis (On top of that, there are the expected problems that come as the result of recruiting Philadelphia and the surrounding areas, namely Jay Wright, Temple and the rest of the Big East). So if we all agree on that premise, and I'm fairly certain we do, then how do we explain SJU's '03-'04 season?

The simple answer is Jameer Nelson. Nelson was an unheralded recruit out of Chester, PA  that signed on to play for Martelli fairly early in the recruiting process (for those of us who haven't had the misfortune to drive through Chester, I will paraphrase the words of Treach, from the immortal 90’s rap group Naughty by Nature: "if you ain’t never been to Chester, don’t ever come to Chester. ‘Cause you wouldn’t understand Chester, so stay the fuck out of Chester"). Nelson's stock grew as he led Chester High School to two state championships, but was locked into Hawk Hill even when bigger programs took notice and came calling. Nelson, who was named the nation's Freshman of the Year after his first season with the Hawks, was a transcendent talent that falls into a program's lap maybe once in a lifetime.

Street prophetsIt’s a twist of fate for St. Joe's that Jameer Nelson was born and raised in nearby Chester, PA. If he had come from say, Pittsburgh, he likely would have played at Pitt or Duquesne. SJU's location was the main motivator for Nelson's attending the university. The same can be said of both Chris Wright and Juwan Staten. Although I am sure that Brian Gregory is a fine man, a gentle lover and a competent recruiter, the fact that UD was the premier local program was the deciding factor for both Wright and Staten (It’s possible that Juwan Staten was breastfed until he was fourteen, but that’s a topic for another day, another time). This is not in dispute. Just as Nelson was the type of recruit Saint Joseph's had never signed before, and likely never will again, Wright and Staten were prep players who usually left town for greener pa$ture$. As Staten and Wright's (and Nelson's) recruitment surely attests, sometimes it’s not about where your program is going, it’s literally about where your program is at.

Here, in my autocratic opinion, is where the roads traveled by St. Joe's and  Dayton have the opportunity to diverge. Whereas Nelson's graduation unfortunately signaled the end of SJU's prominence, Staten's arrival may just indicate the dawning of a new-age for UD hoops. The fortuitous recruitment of Juwan Staten presents an opportunity for Dayton to solidify itself as a program that can reload, not rebuild. UD's incoming class, which has unfortunately dropped out of Scouts' rankings, may turn UD into a preferred program on the level of their overlord, Xavier. 

Now in no way am I predicting that Staten's path will mirror Jameer Nelson's, we should consider ourselves fortunate if Staten has even half the career that Nelson did. Although Staten is the more heralded player coming out of the prep ranks, it's unlikely that he will have that type of impact. What I am saying is that Dayton has the opportunity to succeed where St. Joseph's failed. Whereas Martelli was unable to capitalize on the Hawks' short-lived prosperity, due to SJU's lack of resources and the competition in their backyard, UD can use Staten and Co.'s arrival as a chance to solidify its standing on the national stage. UD does not face the type of insurmountable challenges that St. Joe's does n regards to recruiting, facilities, etc. Chris Wright's recruitment was an affirmative statement that Dayton was capable of reigning in local talent, even if it was by default, hopefully Juwan Staten's enlistment acts as further evidence that the UD basketball program is preparing to take yet another significant step forward.

Before we found out if the Hawk will ever die (answer: looking more and more likely), let's play like E. Aron Presley and fucking T.C.O.B. There is just one piece of distressing news to cover.

The Rick. The Rick has been awfully quiet this season. That is if you don't consider shitting into towels in front of his coaching staff to be noteworthy. However, the cracks are beginning to show on Mount Majerus and it pains me so. Consider this excerpt from Dayton's old reliable:

“We belong in the Missouri Valley,” Majerus said after the Billikens whipped Fordham 75-48 Wednesday night, Jan. 20, “if we care about the kids’ academics.”

Rick, I think I speak for all college basketball fans when I say we could all give two shits about the "kids' academics." We're here to watch "the kids" run up and down the court for our bemusement. None of us are paying money to sit in a college basketball player's room,  watching from the edge of our seats as he struggles to read at a fifth-grade level. Check out some of Chris Wright's quotes from this season, trust me, he hasn't cracked a fucking book in three years. The only thing he's cracking are his nuts over a coed's chin.

I never thought I'd say this, in fact I thought I'd be saying just the opposite, but I think Majerus realizes that he may never succeed in the A-10. Just shocking stuff from the Rick. I suppose you can mark him down in favor of conference realignment?

Now, onward and upward. Let us quickly place the Saint Joseph's Hawks under our keen observation.

Govens: St. Joe's pseudo-bright spotOverview. Saint Joseph's comes into Saturday's game with a 6-11 record, 1-3 in the A-10 (That win? Against the Fordham Pinksocks). To their credit, the Hawks over-scheduled this season with games against Villanova, Purdue, and Minnesota (all losses) -- resulting in the thirteenth toughest schedule in the nation. Throw in defeats at the hands of Cornell, Rhode Island, Temple and Siena, and the Hawks have already played seven top-50 RPI squads. With a tough A-10 slate still ahead of them, it's hard to imagine that St. Joe's won't end up in the basement of the conference with Fordham, UMass and St. Bonaventure. The one bright spot for the Hawks is that this game is being played in newly renovated Hagan Arena, where they are 5-1 on the season (SJU is currently 0-7 on the road). Saint Joseph's is 2-3 in its last five meetings with the Flyers.

Meet and Greet. Darrin Govens leads a very thin squad in scoring, dropping around 13 points a game in what can only be described as an act of offensive futility. He is a below 40% shooter from everywhere except the foul-line. Garrett Williamson is SJU's most complete player. He has the ability to create his own shot, and gets others involved in the offense. Averaging 12 points and 4 assists a game, Williamson is also the Hawks best defender.

The "big man" Idris Hilliard checks in at a mere six feet, seven inches. He is a garbage man who gets most of his points on putbacks and foul shots (as garbage men are wont to do).  Freshman guard Carl Jones has been a pleasant surprise for St. Joe's. Although a woeful shooter, Jones has shown plenty of promise and figures to be a major piece of SJU's rebuilding process. Jones averages ten points a game and a mere assist. His basketball philosophy is the complete opposite of London Warren's. Warren has never seen a shot he covets, and Jones has never seen a pass that catches his fancy. 

Justin Crosgile and Chris Prescott are a pair of underclassman who offer some relief in the backcourt. Both players are decent scorers, averaging around six points each, but turn the ball over too much to be effective. I have no doubt that Phil Martelli hates these two with a fiery passion. 

Tell me that's not the face of a bartenderTodd O'Brien looks like every asshole bartender that made you wait for a drink while he talks to a moderately attractive female at the end of the bar. Seriously, I wouldn't be surprised if he's seen lugging bags of ice to and from the locker room when he isn't in the game. When he is in the game, people stop and stare. They wonder how did this guy end up playing D1 ball? 6'10"/232, that's how. Any questions? I will say this, O'B can rebound a bit (6.6 rpg).

Speaking of 6'10"/232, ask yourself this question. When was the last time you saw a 6'10" - 7'0" guy walking around your neighborhood? I don't believe I ever have, as I certainly would have recalled passing a 6'11" giant on my way to lunch one day. What becomes of these freaks of nature? Is there some sort of stigma attached to them, a belief that they cannot function in polite society for some reason? Maybe they can't get decent jobs because the cheapest suits they can find have to be custom made and cost around $1500 a pop? "I can't get a job without a suit, I can't get a suit without a job." It's the mongoloid's journey, only they can walk it.  

The Numbers Game. There is strength in numbers, unless you are talking about St. Joe's defensive statistics (which are weaker than Muhammad Ali's bladder).


Those are just very upsetting numbers. Giving up nearly 80 points a game only works if you are employing a Westheadian offensive attack, and I don't think Bo Kimble or Hank Gathers are walking through that door for the Hawks. In fact, I can guarantee that Gathers is definitely not walking through that door. Throw in the fact that SJU is a poor rebounding team as well, and you have a team that Dayton was born to steamroll. This one could get ugly, like Zesty going to the rack late in the game ugly.

PredictionI have no doubt that UD wins this one. The Hawks are in the midst of a death spiral and will not put up much of a fight. The only variable that skews my outlook on tomorrow's game is UD's problems away from the Arena and St. Joe's home-court advantage. Let's mark the basketball Flyers down for a ten point victory, 71-61. Dayton is too tough on the boards and will take advantage of SJU's defensive maladies.

This is a game Chris Wright should dominate in, he is a matchup nightmare for the Hawks. Kountry Chris scores 19 points and grabs 11 rebounds. Marcus Johnson continues his steady improvement, scoring a dozen points. In the only game that matters in Philly, Geno's beat Pat's. Kurt Huelsman pisses all over the seat before the game because he is a disgusting animal.

Reader Comments (19)

All O'Brien's are asshole bartenders. How do you think we get laid? I was the guy who cut you off early if you were hitting on a girl I wanted, then when you objected I'd spray water in your face and call for the bouncers. I was the King of my own little castle.

Jan 22, 2010 at 10:41AM | Registered CommenterMr. O'Brien

I just noticed ... Has the coaching immortality thing ever been updated?

Blackburn good preview today. I liked it a lot. Good recruiting shit as well.

I am a master when I am at a crowded bar at being able to reach into the bucket and grab a beer without being noticed ... if the bartender is acting like a duesch and flirting with chicks. I got caught once but I always have money in my other hand so I make it look like I was ready to pay anyways (and that one time I did). It really is a win/win situation for me. Free beer or get caught and just throw the money down on the bar and walk away. Haven't got thrown out yet, that day will come though.

As for the game ... St. Joe's has a good home atmosphere.

UD 74 ... St. Joe's 67

Jan 22, 2010 at 12:08PM | Unregistered CommenterJohn

@John - its spelled "douche," just FYI.

The Rick is just plain ignorant (which is true, incidentally) if he thinks that we're all going to buy that excuse as to why he wants to leave the A-14. I completely agree with Tom - he's just pissed he has to travel his fat ass halfway across the country, but never really get any success in the league. But if I were him, I'd be glad at the opportunity to travel that much - I have no doubt that he likes to gorge himself on the food in the different cities and states. And if the picture on the wall in the Brown St. Ben and Jerry's doesn't convince you the man loves to eat, the burger-grease stain on his shirt and the fat-man underarm sweat sure as hell should.

Jan 22, 2010 at 12:31PM | Unregistered CommenterDiSab

Speculation around SLU is that Majerus is just raising a big stink to get the chartered flights back. Apparently they have to fly commercial once in a while, and the fat fuck doesn't get enough free food or something.

Jan 22, 2010 at 1:05PM | Unregistered CommenterAdam

@Adam: I could care less about his motivations, I just like the fact that he is one of those coaches who claim to be concerned about "the kids." If you were so concerned about the kids, how about working on getting them paid?

Jan 22, 2010 at 1:24PM | Registered CommenterMr. Blackburn

@john: tell me you got your cash...

Jan 22, 2010 at 1:25PM | Registered CommenterMr. Blackburn

First and foremost, if you haven't read the SI bio on Majerus, do so immediately. I haven't been that shocked since the last time I watched a sex show involving a burro in Guadalajara.

When does Martelli get his Great Coach Card revoked? The past four years he's went 9-7 and finished 5th or 6th in the middling A-10. I realize he built a stable program there and had the legendary 2003-2004 season, but this season's a flaming disaster and the future doesn't look too promising. The situation kind of reminds me of OP in his final years here where he just seemed fagged out. While, OP clearly had his sights on another job, Martelli's called Hawk Hill his "dream job" and just signed on through 2016. It'll be interesting to see how things unfold in the next couple years at St. Joe.

I think we'll be able to take more away from this game than one would think at first glance. I'm fully expecting a W, but the manner in which we get the win will prove interesting. This is the type of game in the past that we'd have struggled to win. If we come out and run roughshod over them as the talent disparity would have you hope, I think it would go a long way in cementing ourselves as a premier team in the league.

Jan 22, 2010 at 2:35PM | Registered CommenterOliver

Oliver, OP's last year here was perhaps the best regular season in school history. Only David West kept them from going unbeaten against A10 teams. 14-2 (both losses to X and an A10 tourney title). He didn't mail it in. That 2003 team was the best coaching job of his career.

As for Martelli, he's still a great coach, but his recruiting sucks. Next year's class is probably third best in the league behind X and UD, and he's got a freshman named Carl Jones that should develop nicely. In a couple years SJU will be back. Dunphy's the best coach in the league right now, and I'd have BG second and Martelli third.

I'll say this...I think we lose this one. I feel almost as stongly about that as I did against X. Nothing logical about it, I just don't think we win. SJU probably shoots light out or something.

Jan 22, 2010 at 3:44PM | Unregistered CommenterAdam

The parallel I was drawing between Martelli and OP was one of recruiting. I didn't really make that clear. Obviously, the Marshall/Waleskoski/Finn triumvirate was talented and successful. I'm talking about the back-to-back putrid classes of Williams, Bennett, White, Iguodala and Spears, Scott, Cripe. That's a whole lot of suck right there.

And in regards to Jones, wake me when he cracks 40% from the field and learns how to pass that ball. 35% from the field, 27% from the arc and 1.2 assists/game from an undersized PG. I'll pass.

While Aiken sounds like he has promise, he's going to need to add a considerable amount of weight. ESPN has Galloway as the 44th best SG in the country and Quarles as the 70th best SF. Not exactly Calipari-esque.

Jan 22, 2010 at 5:00PM | Registered CommenterOliver

@Oliver - Ah, yes. Yes it was. Destroyed years 2 and 3 under BG.

Jan 22, 2010 at 5:10PM | Unregistered CommenterAdam

@Adam: That was kind of what I was referring to. Nelson coming to SJU was a complete anomaly, it clouded Martelli's abilities as both a coach and recruiter. St. Joe's was unable to take advantage of the exposure Nelson gave the program, for reasons that were mostly out of their control. I think UD can be successful where SJU wasn't.

Jan 22, 2010 at 5:36PM | Registered CommenterMr. Blackburn

@Blackburn - I'd even go a step further. Facilities, support, cash money...all where they need to be, and they're not going away. Once they get to the top of that hill Dayton has no excuses if they don't enter a new stratosphere for the program (perennial sweet 16 threat, consistent ranking, always top 3 in league).

I certainly think BG has the program on the right path, inching closer. It'll take another 3-4 years to get there, but it can be done. We'll see. If BG can lock up 2 or more kids like Jakaar Sampson, Markus Crider, or even a re-classified Geron Johnson for 2011 (scuttlebutt has him going to a prep school next year due to grades and lingering concerns from an arrest last year) to compliment next year's class, then we should all line up to lick his taint.

Jan 22, 2010 at 5:48PM | Unregistered CommenterAdam

BTW, P90x is effing legit. 4 days in and I'm drowning in lactic acid. It hurts to think about moving.

Jan 22, 2010 at 5:55PM | Unregistered CommenterAdam

Completely admitting that this doesn't mean shit at this point in the season...Rivals.com put out their projection for the NCAA tourney and not only has Dayton at a respectable #5 seed but also has 5 (yes, I said FIVE) A-14 teams in the field.

http://collegebasketball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1042829

Do I think this will hold up at the end of the year...no. Is it nice that the conference is getting some mid-season love...sure. Will the fact that they have us as a higher seed than X (#7) put a little bigger smile on my face and give me a few extra pumps into some strange tonight...fuck yes.

Jan 22, 2010 at 6:06PM | Unregistered CommenterBRPride

@Adam: yup, UD has their window of opportunity slowing opening up--they have all of the other things in place.

@BRPride: If Rivals has UD as a #5 seed they need to do some more research. That's laughable.

Jan 22, 2010 at 6:12PM | Registered CommenterMr. Blackburn

@ Adam: Jakarr Sampson would be a dream. Rumor has it he's leaning towards Izzo as of now. With the big boys stepping in I don't really see how we stand a chance with a kid from Akron (maybe Marcus still has some pull at SVSM?).

I'm not a big fan of either of the Wayne kids at this point. Crider has never blossomed as everyone expected and Trice is a 2g in the body of a PG. I've also heard questions about his quickness.

Interesting about Geron Johnson. He got rave reviews at Flyin' to the Hoop.

Jan 22, 2010 at 8:03PM | Registered CommenterOliver

@Oliver - Yeah, Johnson is really good. ESPN moved him from unranked to 90 in their latest update. From what I heard at Flyin to the Hoop, there's no guarantee he'll be ready to qualify at the end of this year. That and the arrest last year are keeping people away. The only chance he'll have to play D-1 ball at this point is to go to a prep school and develop personally and academically in that environment. I think Gregory would be all over him at that point.

Sampson is a dream, but much like with Payne early on he and his family say they love UD. There's a chance, even if it's remote.

I like Crider a lot. His game is really starting to blossom. Trice is still tiny and wildly inconsistent. He's more of a Ball State player, IMO. If he does end up at UD, BG will be settling big time. I don't want that.

Jan 22, 2010 at 8:58PM | Unregistered CommenterAdam

A kid I have heard the UD staff is on pretty hard is LaDontae Henton of Lansing Eastern in the 2011 class. He is in Michigan State's backyard, but I am not sure that they will offer him and I think Izzo owes BG (something tells me that BG pushed for Payne to go to MSU). He is 6'6" and a true tweener. He isn't a wing like Chris Johnson or a power forward either but he does get after it.
He can play pretty big though and rebounds like a maniac.

As of right now UD will have two scholarships open in 2011, correct? BG shouldn't take a point guard, especially since he will already have Parker and Staten, who will be an all league player by the time he is a sophomore. Find a point in the 2012 class.

Jan 23, 2010 at 9:32AM | Unregistered CommenterDaddy D

the shine on Martelli's boney dome is set at level 7 today....sunglasses not required but do not stare for over 4 seconds.

Jan 23, 2010 at 10:46AM | Unregistered CommenterDirty Sanchez

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